Curse

SerenitySilverstar · Feb 19, 2009, 01:58 AM // 01:58

MrVRod - I think that has more to do with NCSoft not being the game developer, ArenaNet is. If you go to the official ArenaNet site (ie: the Wiki) you will be heard.

I believe the NCSoft standard reply of "go post it on an elite fansite" could be changed somewhat now that Anet are channeling their community thru the Wiki.

Again, I agree the Wiki is not the ideal community place, but there are so MANY places to be heard, I believe that variety (forums vs reviews vs magazines vs fan sites vs blogs vs social sites) is muddying the waters. There is no ideal place - more a happenstance of the evolvement of the internet and e-marketing, than any company's fault.

There are many a "definitive" gaming site (with all of those e-marketing things rolled into it), but no one has really hit the high note as the "Google for all gamers" because of bias and the ever shifting tides of demographs and advertisers.

Inde · Feb 19, 2009, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

MrVRod - I think that has more to do with NCSoft not being the game developer, ArenaNet is. If you go to the official ArenaNet site (ie: the Wiki) you will be heard.

I believe the NCSoft standard reply of "go post it on an elite fansite" could be changed somewhat now that Anet are channeling their community thru the Wiki.

Wiki is doing away with suggestion pages, deleting them entirely for Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arena...rs_suggestions
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arena..._2_suggestions

SerenitySilverstar · Feb 19, 2009, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Odd choice, but unfortunately evocative of what happens to a community when it gets over run with crud (see: forum, cesspools).

Inde · Feb 19, 2009, 03:29 AM // 03:29

So the wiki community is crud, just like the forum community is a cesspool. I can't even... I'm lost. Sorry, but you tell us the gw wiki is great and that the developers listen to suggestions there. That the wiki is our one-stop for all things Guild Wars and that they put out the information for all to see. Then you admit that you didn't even know about the suggestion pages being deleted, great communicating there wiki. Then you say that the wiki is full of crud because they allow suggestions. But the forums aren't a solution because they are cesspools and apparently we're too emotional. Which leads anyone following this line of reasoning to believe that the developers should screw the community since we are just crud and cesspools of emotion.

I guess I give up.

mrvrod · Feb 19, 2009, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

So.....(deleted content)..... Which leads anyone following this line of reasoning to believe that the developers should screw the community since we are just crud and cesspools of emotion.

So THAT'S why there's no GW2 info!!!

sorry...I just couldn't behave myself

Kattar · Feb 19, 2009, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Regardless of what the developers may think of the community, we're (some more than others) are the ones playing their game and paying their salaries. If they want to keep their fan base, they have to deal with us. It's just part of the job.

Whether they want to keep the current fan base is the subject of much musing between me and Mingo.

Tullzinski · Feb 19, 2009, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Tullzinski, despite what I'm about to say, you made a good and thoughtful post. I'm only addressing a small argument in your post but I hope this isn't taken personally because I'm not here to attack your overall idea, but this one particular argument is old, tired and wrong. Yes, even referring to Regina's comment.

It's a statement I hear repeated constantly, Guru makes up a small portion of the community... thousands are playing the game happy and content but they just don't come on here to post it.

It's a flawed argument. Because I can immediately throw back, yes and there are thousands upon thousands leaving the game who also do not post, who also do not give their opinion a voice. These customers leave and Anet has not a clue as to why. They do not collect or gather any data for players leaving the game, they don't have any idea how many decide not to pick up their game again after playing it for just a few hours.

The only thing that speaks to an executive is sales numbers. If their numbers are still high then obviously something is still working. But if a company (the developers, the pr, the community relations, the support) cares to actually know what their players think, why their players like a game, why their players don't like a game then they can go to only one source in the hopes of improving, refining or making changes... the players who do make themselves heard.

It doesn't matter how small a number this is, if there are 1 MM people playing and only 10 players that will give their opinion this is their only course of knowing how their game is being received. Magazines and gaming news sites play a role in this with reviews and summaries of the game but any gamer knows the #1 marketing tool for games is viral and word-of-mouth marketing. The vast majority of us picked up Guild Wars on the recommendation of a friend.

So if I go to a message board and see a largely negative opinion on a game I'm not going to play that. Nor am I going to recommend it. This is why keeping your players informed and happy, those who are all ready consumers, is so vital to a developer, to a publisher. Because viral marketing is what can make or break a game.

I am too polish to take anything personally, too many years of polish jokes do that to you.

I agree with you Inde, there are definately more factors to be considered in terms of keeping your base happy and informed thereby affecting sales and longevity of the game. I fear that at this point in GW1's life NCSOFT/ANET may view it as a success already and not in need of higher level of interaction with us. This leads into the discussion of the need to keep GW1 going until GW2 launches, do not want to lead this thread totally off topic

.

Looking at reasons why ANET/NCSOFT is not providing us with larger amounts of information and adding in the regina's comments from being the #2MMO in Google search engine, it makes sense to me that this may be the attitude ANET/NCSOFT is taking, short/cheap/easy snippets of information on the 3-4 month content updates. Additionally they may feel that those updates do not warrant (in their eyes) more time and resources to promotion/information even though we can show many reasons otherwise.

Of course this is all specualtion on my part in trying to see this information issue in the eyes of the execs/bean counters.

I for one would love to have a camera over the devs shoulders so we can see what they are doing.

As always happy to take any take any treats they are going to throw me

. Would I like to see if that treat has a meat filled center or filled with air, oh yes.

SerenitySilverstar · Feb 19, 2009, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Inde - hey, it's not the Wiki's fault I didn't know they weren't being deleted, I don't read those pages (by choice).

I'm not defending myself from your confusion over my confusion - I keep saying that there just doesn't seem to be a perfect solution for a community. But you have to admit that a community has personal responsibility to be supportive/behave/not clutter the problem - I know not everyone can be positive, but you can't honestly defend the crass behavior of gamers (which gives the rest of right minded people a bad name) and say it's up to the developer to support that mind set. It's like telling the class bully to go right ahead - everyone will bow to him.